(I do not mean to pick on Middle Earth Developers, and I can't substantiate the claims that I've heard. For that reason, I would like to open up the comments for issues that you've had with any developer, particularly those developing in the inner city.
I have two goals with this post: To alert potential buyers, and to engage the developers with these comments to try to find some resolutions - or to let them refute the claims.)
I recently met with a couple of residents of Downtown's Lofts at Graydon Place, a 30-unit project developed by Middle Earth Developers at 26 E Sixth Street (BIRD'S EYE).
Both told me that they're tired of the delays, the constant change orders, and not receiving what they were promised when they purchased their units.
They both said that they had to wait three and a half years to park in the building's garage, which Middle Earth had promised would be open in March 2005.
And a common rooftop deck, which was to cover nearly the entire roof, has been reduced to one-quarter of its size - presumably due to fire codes.
The complaints are nothing new.
On the Urban Ohio message board, one former resident said that a buyer at Graydon Place was promised his condo by June 2004, and it hadn't been completed a full year later.
He also said that one buyer purchased a 1,400-square-foot unit, only to see it shrink to 1,240 square feet by move-in time.
A resident of Kinsey Flats, another Middle Earth project, says that they waited forever for the basement's recreation room to be completed, and even suffered through a period where the basement still had a dirt floor.
The board of the Graydon Place condo association tries to stay on top of all of the problems, but they feel that they're getting the brush-off.
Though litigation is unlikely due to cost and duration, many residents have punch lists (lists of things that need to be fixed) that are quite lengthy and would like to feel like they're being heard.
They wonder if the company is spreading itself too thin and ignoring the "extras", though they do agree that the units themselves have turned out amazing.
Middle Earth Developers is currently developing Parker Flats at Fourth Street and Central Avenue and has announced plans for an upscale project in the old Enquirer Building at 617 Vine Street.
CincyPride 2010 + Apologies
1 hour ago
15 comments:
I am a historic restoration consultant. I havent worked with any developers down there yet, I am moving to cincinnati this summer. I can speak from experience though that small/mid size developers work on paper-thin budgets and multiple projects present problems.
My big concern is the huge numbers of empty converted single family units in OTR currently 3-4 units that developers and the city are just sitting on. You can board, but, the longer a structure sits the more it deteriorates. Maybe developers should divest them selves of some of the smaller holdings getting them in the hands of people who will restore them rather than spread themselves too thin? Ive seen lots of properties that I could see people buying and restoring in OTR, if they could just get their hands on it. Developers alone can't restore OTR it takes people willing to do one project at a time.
Middle Earth is too cheap to hire a General Contractor for its construction needs. Although this would initially raise the overall cost of construction for a project, it would most likely reduce any "surprises" and cost increases that are later passed onto individual owners. The issue with overlooking prevailing wage rates at Parker Flats is completely inexcusable on their part.
Also, subcontractors will not be as loyal to Middle Earth as they are to a local general contractor. A general contractor with numerous other projects is able to expedite things such as punch lists and finish work, since those subs most likely are working multiple jobs for them. Because MED does not have enough volume to concern most subcontractors, they are often at the bottom of the list in terms of priority for subcontractors.
The funny thing is, people have been working in OTR building by building fro 30 years, with no acknowledgment from the general public. It has taken a team of developers to come together and raise the awareness to attract people to this neighborhood.
I think as the market picks up downtown, and as gas prices climb ever higher, you will see a premium on inner city land, and the market will pay for rehab work done in OTR. Right now there is still a difference between what a unit cost in OTR vs. what it can be developed for.
I think I will stay anonymous too.
I saw firsthand some of ME's projects on Walnut Street in the 1990s. Then, it seemed like the projects were not very well-thought out. For example, they didn't figure ahead of time how to vent the furnaces and bathrooms so, they had to build extra soffits and stick out of the roof in odd places. Partially this was from hiring a plumber and a furnace guy who hadn't worked in an old OTR building before. But part of it was their management of the job. They were a bit green then, and when I toured Graydon Place under construction, it looked like they had improved.
If I was going to buy a condo in downtown/OTR, I would try to get one by Bill Baum or Greg Badger(Urban Sites). As a second choice I would go with Model. I wouldn't buy one from ME or Chris Frutkin (Center City) before doing lots of checking.
I'm still sold on Parker Flats and I think its going to be awesome in spite of MED not because of them. They don't "get" it, as in get how people occupy and live in a space. Some of the many changes they've made leave me scratching my head. Urban Sites meanwhile clearly get it.
For another example compare MED's website for Parker Flats versus The Edge condo's website. That will tell you more than I ever could.
http://www.edgecondo.com/see/see.htm
http://www.medevelopers.com/parker_flats.asp
^ Big difference. The URLs alone tell the tale. The Edge gets it's own dedicated URL, while Parker Flats is just part of ME's URL. It sends the message that the project doesn't warrant it's own URL.
And when you visit the web pages, The Edge has a dynamic, interesting site, that makes it seem important. Parker Flats' site looks like it was done in 1999and has "Middle Earth Developers" in large print at the top with links to their other developments to the side. It makes the project look secondary to the developer, which really should be the other way around.
Pretty weak.
A little off the subject, but still in OTR...Is something about to happen in the lot where the Empire Theater used to be?
I did not have a good experience with a Chris Frutkin (Center City)property, as mentioned above.
ME properties look good, but it's hard to have confidence in something (Parker Flats) that is taking so incredibly long to complete. I do truly hope that it's worth the wait.
Does anyone know how things are going at the McAlpin building? It's "open", but doesn't seem to be teeming with life. Just curious.
Also, is the Edge project still in the pipeline? There's not much stirring over there. A nice website is a boon, but can't save a development on it's own. Is the former Gregory Center residential development suffering the same fate?
^ One River Plaza only needs to sell about 4 or 5 more units before they break ground. They're still planning to break ground this year.
Paul Wilham...I agree with your thoughts on small developers, or owner-occupiers who rehab their own houses, one at a time. One could also argue that the current momentum being seen in parts of OTR would not have been possible without the critical mass of developers who could afford to put together dozens of units rather quickly.
I also agree with Paul Wilham on the necessity of having all people involved in the housing renaissance. Instead of a policy for housing rehab which would enhance resurgence, the city styles it's contribution to the individual developer, leaving out the individual. I too am not shunning the importance of larger developers but not at the exclusion of the individual.
According to the city, the parcel where the Empire Theater used to be on Vine St. is going to become an eighteen space parking lot for the surrounding businesses.
who is the developer for the new loft project on McMillain? What have they done before?
Good Luck to them. I hope they can get what they are asking - $114,00 for 800 sq ft is the smallest with 1 secured parking spot.
^ Where on McMillan?
I have just come across this blog, a little late, I suppose. It is unfortunate to read several posts that contain hearsay or unsubstantiated comments, as they may be counter-productive to the (presumed) goal of getting people excited about buying in the Urban Core.
I know a bit about the realities of developing condos and have been involved in educating both condo buyers and developers about their responsibilities under the ohio condominium laws. I am familiar with some of the specific developments/developers mentioned and would recommend that anyone considering buying a condo should certainly check references on the developer, but should talk to more than one person, as the possibility exists that one person is the problem. There are, unfortunately, some people who will never be happy, and others who are good people but have unrealistic expectations.
In every case, developers of older buildings are destined to run into unexpected problems before and after development. The condo law is pretty clear on who is responsible for various items, and that is disclosed in the declarations. Read the declarations carefully! I have heard of situations where inexperienced realtors promise buyers things that the developer never contemplated, which causes great distress for the developer and buyer.
Delays are inevitable in the uncertain world of renovating old buildings, but if you can be patient, it is a fact that most of these condos mentioned have appreciated substantially and that in almost every case, the buyers make more on their unit re-sale than the developer did on the entire project!
^ Well said. I certainly hope that this topic has not caused anyone to rethink moving to the core.
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