A Corryville homeowner thinks that a recent development in his neighborhood would seriously hinder the benefit of an Uptown streetcar.
Peter Dryer, a 29-year-old medical resident at the University of Cincinnati, says in a communication to Councilmember Roxanne Qualls that, on July 22, the Corryville Community Council essentially approved of a plan by Kroger for a 60,000-square-foot suburban-style grocery store on - a plan that could shut off the Short Vine business district from a streetcar connector route.
"City representatives had warned the counsel [sic] prior that this would reroute the future streetcar to Jefferson since it would not be able to make the sharp turns around the development to enter the business district," he says. "The city mentioned that this was not a recommended change but that it did not have the stomach to fight the counsel's [sic] potential approval."
Dryer attibutes the approval of the store, with its isolation from the street and vast surface parking lots, to the makeup of the community council itself - middle-aged landlords who don't see the benefit of a streetcar and want to "jump for the short term gain of a new Kroger".
"The vast majority of the counsel [sic] are middle aged landlords who stated that they can't depend on the streetcar, and that we need to act now," he says. "The young optimists were outvoted by the older business owners."
He says that they're missing the bigger picture.
"My wife worked in Portland for 5 years at Nike's world headquarters and lived by the famed '23rd Street'," Dryer says. "She knows first hand that business districts like the Short Vine area, near such a large concentration of young people at UC, would likely undergo the quintessential streetcar transformation and that there is a large difference between running the car up Jefferson vs. the business district in terms of the benefit to the business district."
While he understands that everyone is for strong redevelopment of the area, Dryer is asking City Council to provide community stakeholders with better public information, assurances that the streetcar line will be built, and creative thinking on how to bring the streetcar onto Short Vine.
He also worries that Kroger is using its muscle to push the community council to approve the plan, or lose out on the development altogether.
"I'm in the growing minority of young professionals who is trying to move back into the city," Dryer says. "While we all understand that Kroger and others need to mind their bottom line, I'm afraid that bigger opportunities and benefits - even to Kroger - are being missed because people don't believe in the streetcar here!"
A report on the communication from City Manager Milton Dohoney Jr is expected by early September.
Photo credit: user
Previous reading on BC:
Uptown Consortium moves on Short Vine purchases (7/23/08)
Action taken on University Plaza (1/2/08)
Wednesday, August 6, 2008
Corryville homeowner says Kroger development would hinder streetcar
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17 comments:
I find this story very peculiar. My first thought was that I had heard Kroger was planning a more urban footprint for a rebuilt store there. My second thought was that the Uptown Consortium was moving forward with the Kroger concept and simultaneously with the concept of reconnecting Short Vine with Vine Street (at McMillan).
All of these would point to the project not "hindering" a potential Uptown streetcar route. It is also a bit presumptive seeing as how the route hasn't been studied yet, much less specifically identified to run down an already cluttered Short Vine.
Like I said, there seems to be something peculiar here. Am I missing something Kevin, have multiple events taken place that I somehow missed?
Exactly what Rando said... how did a suburban-style Kroger get approved without anyone noticing?
perculiar perhaps, but see for yourself. this footprint has been essentially blessed by the corryville counsel under threat of withdrawal of the plan by kroger. it's all in the minutes of the meetings.
www.corryville.org/renderings/
I see all of the renderings, but I don't see the minutes posted anywhere...am I overlooking them somehow?
This plan doesn't look much better than what currently exists. Sure the site plan looks pretty with freshly drawn trees, pedestrian connection points, and rooftop gardens. But as it sounds Kroger as already value engineered this project to its current stake...what's going to keep them from taking out these minimal (almost token) amenities offered in this plan? It sounds like the community has already given up the fight, why?
i'm not sure how to post the minutes. they're in MS word format.
why?
the counsel is made up of landlords who have waited decades for development. now that this opportunity has arisen, and krogers says they'll start asap, not "maybe in the next 5 years like the streetcar, which might come up vine". short sited fear drives the counsel.
and rando, i agree, nothing holds krogers to even the token amenities it drew in. further, the terrible truth is that the only guarantee offered by krogers was that their building and the walmart would be built with a vast ocean of blacktop in between.
they place walls around the structure, to hide the parkinglot from the street... this doubles as a mural for graffiti on one side and a place for dealers to hide on the other.
^You should be able to PDF those word documents and upload them to the site much like you did with the renderings.
As for the development...this is not a net gain of anything. So it's not like the neighborhood/community is seeing new investment. What they would see here is money spent to tear down...and essentially rebuild what was previously there. I don't see why the community would go for any of this.
This site has long been the eyesore and representative for Corryville. This is the neighborhood's chance to demand something better (from a company who can certainly afford to do better). This whole thing is sounding very pitiful on many different levels.
I also don't understand why the Corryville representatives can't stand up for a site plan that includes a reconnected Short Vine with Vine.
This is not contingent upon the streetcar coming or going...this has been something on the discussion boards for at least 4-5 years now. I just really don't get the change, and I especially don't get the apparent lack of backbone.
corryville's counsel has expressed willingness to sacrifice the streetcar for a new krogers. But, it is trying to hold onto sway regarding the smaller details by encouraging krogers into a planned development, which essentially handcuffs it to the city planners. krogers upper hand in all this comes from a renew option on the current lease for the next 30 years. thus, they have more say than anyone
right, the new design offers little, but it is billed as an improvement.
1. A new, bigger, better store with high end offerings
2. 1 million in facade improvments/landscaping/art
3. opening up the line of site down short vine
4. playing a role as the southern anchor for the larger development plan for the business district.
problem is, the business district is starving and can't think creatively.
one good solution is to run the street car only through the parking space, connecting vine to short vine. krogers already misses zoning codes by not having enough parking in this design, and they claim they could not give up any more... though it's unclear they would be willing to give up the spaces even if the city offered it.
"hello, krogers, would you really turn down the streetcar with a stop in your parking lot?"
by the way, vine street is plan 'A' by the city, clifton ave is plan 'B' according to qualls office.
hm. i didn't post the images on the website and i'm not sure who to pdf my documents. will look into it.
I still don't understand the dynamic between this and the streetcar. While running up along Short Vine may potentially be an option, nothing specific has been laid out for the Uptown portion.
So even if that was an original preference, it could change and go elsewhere (i.e. Jefferson). What my issue is, is that there will still be this nasty mega-block in the middle of small block neighborhood. The University Village area will still stink of nasty mistakes made in the urban renewal era, and no matter how nice it looks initially...that shine will quickly wear off thanks to the cheap design and value engineering that Kroger is making the residents of Corryville settle for.
So whether this makes accommodations for a potential streetcar line or not...the plan still sucks - BIG TIME.
rando,
agreed, any suburban style krogers is suboptimal. the reality is, they are a blue chip company, with a formula that works, and are understandably afraid to deviate from it, even at the expense of further development in the community, which is very sad.
the original urban renewal design was urban, as you mentioned. it accomidated the street car on short vine, and enhanced, rather than detracted from a pedestrian friendly urban plan for the business district. but krogers can't, or won't, but into it because they are afraid of the cost of escalators and parking garages.
The critical point i believe you are missing is the importance of the connector from vine to short vine, which would also likely include jefferson. the multiplier effect on investment is maximized when the track runs through strategic, business districts with huge upsides to them. the benefit is less if you just run it up and back on jefferson. they say the effect stretchs 3 blocks, but they don't mean it's equal affecting each block as you move further out. here are a few reasons...
1) short vine becomes "a destination" on the map... (this probably will not make sense unless you've experienced it in other cities)
2) you are much more likely to spend money if stores are right there in front of you
3) more people in the district makes it safer, which is sorely needed
4) development in the business district brings in much higher city tax income than a small bump in property values on jefferson. obviously, if you're using TIF to fund the thing, you'd want to maximize the upside.
it's pretty clear why this is plan 'A'.
I've uploaded the minutes AMDG described to Scribd, where they can be read here:
CCC minutes, 7/22/08
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4605926/Corryville-Community-Council-minutes-72208
Short Vine Revitalization, July 2008
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4605966/July-2008-Revitalization-Update
I am all for Kroger closing.....
I unerdstand they have an option for 2 more ten years leases......
So what is one to do?
live with we have.................nothing.......or a new bigger and improved nothing????
This is why I don't shop at Kroger. Compared to other grocers, their advertising, interior store design, branding, and architecture is just, I don't know, boring and uninspired. As a consumer, this makes me think their products are not as good as they could be.
Kroger sort of mirrors the city/region in this way... unwilling and afraid to change and push the boundaries.
it's council. not counsel. i promise, it will strengthen your argument and give you more credibility if you use it correctly.
:-)
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